Minimum Rates on Job Posts and Candidate List
With tonight’s release we made several tweaks that affect job posts on oDesk:
Minimum Rates on Job Posts:
Starting today, we will no longer accept fixed price job posts with a budget less than $5. For hourly jobs, the maximum rate preference must now be at least $3 per hour. These changes only affect the job posting, so that candidacies and assignments may still occur at whatever rates and amounts are agreed upon by the buyer and providers.
We’ve noticed that job posts with budgets or rate preferences below these thresholds tend not to fill and when they do fill, it is often at greater amounts. By introducing these limits we are hoping to dissuade non-serious buyers and set more accurate expectations from the start.
Candidate List:
Users have been telling us that the candidate list in the Job Facts page is disconcerting and very few people found true value in it — we are therefore removing the candidate list from job opening pages. We will continue displaying the total number of candidates and interviewees at the top of the page in the Job Facts so that providers can gain an idea of the competition for a job before applying. The name of the provider who was hired will also continue to be displayed.
We’re committed to providing a high quality experience for all of our users. If you have ideas (or would like to vote on ideas) that you think will contribute to a quality experience, please share them with us at http://feedback.odesk.com.
Pingback: New Changes in oDesk: Implementation of Minimum Rates on Job Posts and Candidate List | oDesk Guide
The implementation is good. But will users really follow this one. As i could still see jobs are being posted for an hourly rate below $0.5 per hour.
And if it is not mentioned then there are some candidates that apply for those jobs for very low rates only to get the job in their basket.
Can odesk stop this low rate hiring?
As a freelance writer who has worked through oDesk I am happy to see that it is progressing. The minimum wage of $5 per article is a great improvement even though at time insufficient.
In every field fair trade practices are encouraged and it is high time that freelance writing and working was also given the benefits of this concept by buyers who are mostly from the so called developed world.
If you pay peanuts you will get monkeys working for you and with a good wage you will be able to attract a better quality of worker.
May blessings be yours oDesk for this great move.
As an article writer from the Philippines, I think this is a great move from oDesk. Filipino providers have the same skills over other English speaking country’s but we only differ in rate. Though I have a lesser rate compare to others, I fell fortunate because I still have an expected income that I can use to survive. I am improving my skills during idle so no matter what kind of battle I may face, I can say that I ready to give them what I got.
If Odesk can set providers to apply from $3.00 onwards, it will be a great solution for this feedback.
However providers are applying very cheap rate for get the assignment and thereafter the other buyers are stating to bid not higher than some certain amount to consider providers application
For an example :-
A buyer post a job and X,Y,Z Providers are applying on it accordingly.
X provider – $5/hour
Y provider – $3/hour
Z provider – $2/hour
Result : A buyer offer the assignment to Z provider.
B buyer after market research he posts one job and saying that bid $1.50 or lower, P,Q,R providers accordingly.
P provider – $1.5/hour
Q provider – $1/hour
R provider – $0.75/hour
Result : B buyer offer the assignment to R provider.
Bad effects from the example are :-
1. Providers demand drastically goes down from $5.00 to $0.75
2. Assignments are offered only for the rate not for the qualification,skills and experience.
3. Due to 2nd point, assignment are ended up with bad feed backs because of quality.
4. In this event buyers are away from the odesk, because odesk providers does not meet their expectations
5. It makes reducing the number of buyers and job postings may become reduced.
Please set the minimum rate of hourly rate as $3.00 and it helps providers cannot apply lower than $3.00. Then buyers having equal option to select providers not only the rate buyer can select providers according to their qualifications,skills and experience.
I would like if you can forward this message to the relevant admins in Odesk in order to make appropriate actions.
Global marketplace or not, poor economy or not, allowing Buyers to hire providers at less than $5/hr is appalling.
Haven’t we seen enough greed on Wall Street? Should buyers be allowed to pay providers less than minimum wage, U.S., so that they can live comfortable lifestyles?
I am just getting started as an Odesk provider, and the idea that I would be bidding against people who will take $1/hr or less is unbelievable. In a good economy, I was making $60/hour, and although I am now willing to reduce that by half or more, it isn’t worth it to me to work for pennies. I could make better money delivering the newspaper or collecting and recycling empty cans and bottles from public trashcans.
Odesk has some responsibility to maintain a fair marketplace and support ethical and moral standards for the virtual workplace. Buyers shouldn’t be allowed to pay indentured servant wages, and providers should have enough self-respect to charge a reasonable fee.
I appreciated this initiative. Though I think fixed price job should have minimum 20$ and hourly job should have 10$ Per Hour.
I am a new buyer. i cant make fair comparisons if there are providers bidding $0.00 per hour. i dont see why they do that? i posted a job where i want a va to help me find an online job by posting my resume and profile to various sites. so i would want to pay as little as possible until i get a job
Laura…OMG. You have hit the nail on the head. I am a new provider as well. The responsiblity is on ODesk. The virtual workplace does not seem to be taken seriously enough to be considered a fair market place. Depending upon the experience and skill of providers nothing less than 10$hr should be acceptable.
Buyers who’s need are microtask should respond to fiverr.com. or Etsy.com.
Well, the http://earnonlinephilippines.blogspot.com/ blog site ACTUALLY provides training for Filipino providers about how to win clients and make these clients love them! Many of the comments here make sense. If people want serious work done over the Internet, if people want to open more minds about earning online, some things need to be addressed (and maybe ASAP, too).
Very inspiring comments courtesy of Mr. David Beczuk. Because Odesk is a marketplace (and a superbly good one, that is), it has to add/maintain features which will benefit serious takers, buyers and providers alike.
I think the candidate list removal is a good move. And the minimum wages.
If providers can ‘judge’ their own prices by checking out the competition, that is kind of manipulating the Buyer’s choice.
Say if a Buyer just wants to pay 5$ and wants the job done well. If the provider bids over 5$, then the Buyer has reason not to hire them. If the Buyer ends up hiring someone for $1, then it is his own dollar and (most of the time) risk.
Besides in real life, you rarely get to see who you’re competing with in jobs.
I hope the candidate list will not be removed. It will be harder for me confirm if I applied for the bid or not.
I’m another of those who disagree with these moves. Odesk was so good because it did things differently than elance, but now it seems those ‘points of advantage’ are being taken away with these new calls.
I’ve found odesk to be perfect in jsut about every way. I’m so disappointed to hear about these new decisions.
Do you mean minimum or maximum rate is to be $3.
When does this take place? I am still working for very low wages and I haven’t seen a change in the wage yet? I am struggling just to get selected because they only want to pay $1 or less.
You did a good move on putting a minimum rate per hour. As I keep browsing on the job posts, some pay less even less than a dollor where in they prefer full time with lots of workload. However, it depends on the contractor if they bid a lower rate compared to the minimum.
This has nothing to with minimum wage but I don’t know where else to lodge a complaint. I did some fixed rate ($8 an audio hour) for*removed by admin*. This was completed on 1 Aug 2010. To date, there has only been silence from his side and no sign of payment. Can anyone advise me on how to proceed from here. I have also noted that he has, in the meantime posted more jobs and that a previous contractor also had a payment dispute with him
Myra – you need to contact oDesk’s customer service team: http://www.odesk.com/help
Hi everyone! I’ve been told about oDesk by several women in my powerful circle over here in the US. And let me tell you, I’m really looking forward to working with you. I’m new here, just posted my first job, still haven’t completed my payment info yet; however, I can’t believe that people hiring would pay .50 or $1 per article. I know there is a recession. I know that money is tight everywhere and I also feel it; however, I am coming to oDesk to reach out to you because of the affordability factor, but not for the “slave wages” – I would never feel good about myself personally. I would only want this to be a win-win situation for everyone. So, I just wanted to state this from my P.O.V. and wish us all prosperity, love, health, happiness and good fortune. Not in that order necessarily.
One more comment – I read Laura and Renee Boone’s comments. They are obviously not living in the Phillipine’s where I gathered earlier that the minimum wage is approx $1.50/hour. We all have to realize exactly what dollar value is to each economy.
It’s wonderful that one person was making $60/hour. That sounds heavenly to everyone else I’m sure. However, not everyone has the opportunity to deliver newspapers where they live. I’m stating this with as much love as possible.
If we all can offer opportunities without “greed” factor and without the experience Myra had which is where she did work for $8/hour for a company and the man posted it on his site, then disappeared from her only to post more jobs on oDesk for hire. . .then, hopefully we will all be doing a good service. We should do the best we can with as much love in our hearts. That’s all. And if we are able to afford more than $3, $4 or $5 – $8 / hour to hire outside of our circle, then God Bless us all even more because we’ll have more work for oDesk contractors!
This is a very good news to all of us and i hope that everything works well and be implemented. 1$ for an hour work is not worth for a consumption for those country with less money value.
I hope my hard work will get compensated with this increase of minimum rates. An be more inspired working with oDesk.
I disagree with the minimum pricing sentiment on an economic level, with minimum pricing the “market won’t clear” such that providers that don’t offer value for money will find it harder to provide their services.
That said, I can understand it. Offering “real money” for “real work” promotes quality and a sustainable level of income.
If the minimum rate on oDesk really is 3 dollars an hour, how come employers are still offering .50 cents an hour on most writing jobs? and people are actually still accepting those jobs? i live in the phils, and when converted into our currency .50 cents is around 20 pesos. which can buy me a bag of chips (a small bag with about fifteen chips) and a small soda. it’s even lower than than the national minimum wage, and that’s already really low.
You should fix the minimum rate for every category. Highly Recommended.
I think it doesn’t happen to be true all the time. In most of the cases the profile status is required rather than the low rate on the job postings.
The very purpose of design is to communicate.
Most frequently, our purpose is to communicate value:
the value of design to our clients and the value of our clients to their consumers.
Value has very little to do with actual prices or competition. To quote an excellent article: A BMW or Volvo costs much more than a comparable car, such as a KIA, Volkswagen or Honda. But people still buy BMW. Why? Because of the value the name brings.
So what is value?
Positive experiences… this can sometimes be a negative event that was properly handled and thus became a positive experience.
Knowledge… the previous experiences and the accumulated knowledge is reflected in the brand by example. BMW’s vast knowledge of producing quality, safe, beautiful cars is reflected in their history.
Quality… Both BMW and KIA may share the same knowledge in how to build a vehicle, but the end result from BMW is of higher quality and results in greater value.
So if value is what consumers want, then why are we so obsessed with price?
If you push aside price for a moment and assess all the costs that are associated with creation and design…
•your salary
•your computer
•your programs
•supplies (paper, pens, ink, other small variables)
business insurance (what if something happened to your hard drive? your business burned down? could you rebuild without any assistance?)
•health insurance (increasingly, it is becoming mandatory to have health insurance, even if you are self employed.)
•rental or mortgage costs (that room you use for an office could be a bedroom or exercise room.)
•education and training
•professional associations
•taxes
these things add up. it isn’t cheap to be a freelance designer, by any means. Be honest with yourself:
–add up all your personal bills for the year
–add up all your professional/freelance bills for the year
–divide by 12 (months)
–divide the 12 months by how many weeks a year you can work. (be honest. 52 weeks in a year. Do you want 1 week vacation? then only put 51.)
–divide the remaining number by the number of hours you are available to work each week.
(again, be honest. you only hurt yourself if you put 40 and you already have a full time job.)
–now you know how much money you need to make, MINIMUM, in order to pay your bills.
Now look at what you’ve been actually charging.
I’m willing to bet that 85% of you don’t charge what you should be, just to make ends meet. In other words, you’re giving yourself away. You’re paying for someone else’s product. Does the GAP buy your jeans for you? Of course not. They make sure they cover their bills and make money. Why should you put yourself in harm’s way? Because you’re afraid you won’t get another client if you don’t undercharge?
Now that’s where we get tricky.
Fear causes people to undercharge.
Charging less than the fair market price is called LOWBALLING.
Lowballing hurts your profession, hurts your wallet, hurts the economy, hurts everything. But because you’re afraid of losing, afraid that you’re not as good, you charge less. You charge less and you lowball the competition. That’s the real reason you want to see the competition.
You need to have honest skills that deliver real value to clients who know the difference between quality and someone who can’t deliver.
That is really nice article andrea.
It really not easy being a cheap freelance providers.
Hope that all providers understand this.
Let create a competetive market rather than lowest bid win market.
Thanks Shailesh,
It’s not just difficult to work as a provider for less than a fair market price, but its destructive.
Think about it in terms of a physical product again.
We have to do this because the service industry is frequently intangible – which lends itself to abuses, such as employers asking for free work.
Employers increasingly ask for free work, (in design its called spec work) for two reasons:
1. because they don’t understand what goes into the work to produce it
(comparatively speaking, Olympic ice skaters make a triple axle jump look easy, too.)
2. because there is a sucker born every minute; someone who is going to give them the free work just because the employer asked for it.
If we continue to deliver work for a price that is less than the fair market value, then we have to cut costs somewhere. Typically, those costs are cut in terms of quality.
For example:
I have a regular client that I have been working with for three years now. (This month actually marks our anniversary)
I didn’t seek out this client. They sought me. I’m not a rockstar designer. I’m most certainly not the best one in the planet. Yet this client has awarded for my designs and marketing strategies. Furthermore, I cost more than twice what their last designer cost them. So how on earth are they still working with me?
Remember this simple equation
VALUE > MONEY
My client had a designer previous to me. Her designs were frequently late with little or no explanation or apology. I could see, from looking at her work, that her designs were rushed and ill-conceived. The layout was hard to read and the overall flow was difficult to follow. The final straw for the client was something so small – she couldn’t print her own mailing labels, so they wanted a new designer.
I got the contract by word of mouth. Someone who knew me told me they were looking for a designer because the last one was very disappointing.
I asked them what they were paying currently and I was fortunate enough that they forwarded me a copy of her last bill.
Unfortunately, she was a lowballer.
Her price was so low, that there was no physical way I could do the work for that amount of money. I would end up paying for their print job, by the time it was completed.
I told them this and they said, “Submit a quote anyways. We’ll see.”
I gathered a bunch of printing quotes from as many printers in the area to find the best value possible.
No two printers are alike.
I forwarded the client a copy of my per page rate along with printing costs.
Since we’re talking about past events, you already know I got the job. At first they were nervous because I cost so much more. Much more. However, once they started working with me, they understood the VALUE that I deliver.
Not only do they not have to print mailing labels anymore, but my designs have increased their revenue, which in turn, delivered the second award for the past year. I deliver small extras for them, that don’t cost me lots more on my time. In turn, these small extras deliver large amounts of value that inevitably maintain my relationship with the client.
Had I tried to match the price, or, worse, beat the price of their failed designer:
I would be printing their work on my printer at home, unprofessionally stapling things together,
rushing to get the job done so I can move on to the next one,
and cutting corners wherever possible.
I highly doubt that would have earned me an award for excellence in their eyes.
Worse yet, after a second failed attempt at hiring a graphic designer, the client might have scrapped the project altogether. The very project that served to double their business to business revenue.
A perfect example of value > money.
Andrea,
That too was a nice little wake up story for employers who are searching for lowballer.:->
There’s something i need to add up to this also.
I also get some rejected job applications saying that my bid is too high. But i know they will hire a provider with lower price. I think the simple calculation for some of the employers is number of hours worked x hourly rate. These kind of employers will always hire the lowest bid contractor.
Its really hard thing to explain what and how much efforts thought goes into making and developing a particular thing.
So its true a quality work should be paid the correct amount. But the sad thing is that every sucker is borned everyday.
We need some more contractors of your thought. (Not ready to work for low rates).
And nice to hear that you are a designer.
When money is at the top of the list for deciding factors, you can be sure that quality is not.
(There is only room for one thing at the top of a list)
So if the employers who reject you do so for money or the preference of cheaper providers, then breathe a sigh of relief … they did you a favor!
Nothing is worse than having to cut corners for a cheap employer.
Stand your ground.
If everyone did that, there wouldn’t be lowballers and the prices would be something we all could live with.
You know, too… what’s funny is that the cheap employers who hire based solely on money are the same ones where if we asked them to provide products for less than what is profitable for their pockets, you know as well as i do… they would be the first ones to scream about unfair practices, but yet they demand it of their service providers all the time.
I’m not scared. Once the economy turns around (and it will) there won’t be a poor economy to put the excuses on… and instead, the pressure to compete will be high. Every employer and company who took shortcuts and became renown for poor quality products will either have to reevaluate their business model and adopt new ethos, or perish.
So stand tall.
Having escraw in fixed price job would be a best option. As, several buyer do not intent to pay upfront and we loose those projects.
Also, showing candidate list on the job page would be a great feature. This way odesk providing us an understanding of the type of bidder bidding the job and help us to plan further. Also, we can see if our agency contractor or affiliates has already been placed the bid for the same job.
Thanks
I appreciate your setting up minimum hourly rate for the providers. Though I already submitted and created my profile account to odesk, I have not applied or bid for job yet since I am still new to odesk. As of now, I just keep on reading and familiarize myself with odesk policy and regulations and also learn from the comments and feedbacks of the providers/contractors who have been with odesk already.
I support to the comment of Marjorie that what is important is how do you know the value of your work and how you can give to the company or to the your employer. I believe that credible employers also know their criteria on whom to hire based on the qualifications of the service providers. And whether the provider bids higher than $5 /hr, it will not be a big deal on the part of the employer. What’s important is that the service provider could deliver what is expected of her/him similarly with the employer.
I trust that odesk team could assist me now how to start my work with odesk.
I thank you so much odesk. Looking forward to your response.
Pingback: New Changes in oDesk: Implementation of Minimum Rates on Job Posts and Candidate List « earntips24