What is the hardest thing about freelancing?

How is anyone not in India supposed to be satisfied with less than $5 an hour. I can flip burgers for $8 an hour, however I've spent years learning and mastering these html/css/php/photoshop skills and forgive me for asking for $10 per hour. (Which gets me 1 out of 20 jobs applied to.)

Anyway, I would very much like a minimum bid option. 

In another post you said you were 15 - so how many 'years' could you have possibly spent developing skills? 

frist tel me how we eillget paymend and contact with eachather

That was mean 

Yep that could be that it was mean - but I have grandchildren older than that - I have "YEARS" of experience - at 15 he's got days of it  at best.  Don't contradict yourself publicly if you can't back up your claims Someone like me who remembers everything will catch you at it LOL

New here, been freelancing in another site (I don't think I can mention it here) for over 2 years now. I can't compete with $2 prices, but I can provide quality. 

On my experience on the other site, pricing trend goes low sometimes, then it rises back up for "not-indian developers" as they say.. I've known some extremely good indian developers, but they won't move a finger for $2/hour, so... $2 means cheap low quality work.

Good quality + communication + cover the extra mile even before client notices it has been my secret for success in the past and won't work for less than my hourly rate unless it's an extremely appealing project.

 Good luck 2 everybody!

I think buys who goes for cheaper resources knows what they should expect. And to be frank I like to work with clients who enjoy quality and are ready respect a self employed resource for his courage to present himself as an independent  entity in the industry .

It is entirely a game of patience and if you think you deserve more. The thumb rule is "prove it". Give references and samples. Share your views and discuss what makes you think that you deserve what you are asking for.

Freelancing is not such a easy thing and I knew it before I made up my mind to be self employed.

Those who thinks it is easy, think again..

I have been rooked by Payoneer a number of times. Now, I am ready to quit Odesk because they again stole money from my Master Card. They charge for things I did not buy nor bargain for. 

What other payment options are available for me in the Philippines? I cannot get Paypal here. I don't think ODesk will pay by check.

You can try Moneybookers, sir.  That's what I'm using right now since I don't have my card yet.

How sad.  I didn't know Payoneer could do that.

Paypal is now available in the Philippines. You can also withdraw it to our local bank. Pero with Odesk I used Moneybookers Ever since I started. Been in odesk since 2005.

How where yo able to use moneybooker? As I can see Philippines is not under their supported bank, I already registered on moneybooker. I havent started with odesk yet but Im already confused.

I agree.  I believe this is due to certain people bidding for a low price (becoming cheap labor) just to get the job.  While the buyer loves this cheaper price, it only hurts all of us quality providers who bid a fair rate and should be paid that amount.  

We all have the right to bid what we wish to bid.  The pay scale here is what ever the providers set for themselves.  

Many providers take extra time to 'carve' down the categories they are applying for positions in and they bid accordingly.  I believe that the bid system works well for all of us and I also believe that when a buyer finds a provider who is qualified that regardless of the pay they'll hire them if the provider has clarified their skills well in their portfolio and also provided a strong and accurate cover letter with reference to  their skills.

How do you get your name on the Candidate List?

By applying. Pick a project/job you like, click on Apply, type in your cover letter, attach 1 of your work samples, click on the checkbox (oDesk Agreement) then click Apply. Your name will then appear on the Candidate List for that particular project. You can read the oDesk Handbook for more info: http://www.odesk.com/community/handbook/. Enjoy job hunting!

The first thing you might like to consider is changing your overview which currently says: To obtain a position in the real estate industry with excellent mobility and room to grow. Chances are you're not going to find that type of job on oDesk

Create a portfolio for yourself which should help highlight your skills and you may want to consider 'cleaning up' your resume - there are some 'characters' in it that make it not easily readable.

Good luck! After only 10 days on oDesk you are well on your way since you've done a great job with your tests!!

Sadly, that's how it is. Buyers look at the oDesk hours accumulated, and they bypass opportunities to hire newbies but equally skilled providers.  As for wages, they will hire those who will accept the lowest fee -- imagine $3 for a 500 word article! And for peanuts they want excellent and original copy, perfect grammar, yada yada. . .  

I disagree with you strongly. I write articles all of the time, as well as website content.  Every person on this site was 'new' at one time or another including all of us so called 'seasoned' providers.

It takes work to prove yourself to the buyers out there. But after 5 months I've done that - and prior to this I'd never written a single article in my life.

thats right if you provide the best work andy buyer is happy with you they will deffinatly hire you next time if they are setisfied with your work...and you are right on that point to get some practical knowlage of office work coz it polish your skills and you get to know the professional environment that will help you in the freelancing.

I have cut a portion of your post out for brevity but I'd like to make a few comments.

First, there seems to be a new 'hive' of folks who are dropping in at oDesk and after hours (and sometimes a few days) deciding that we're all working for pennies on the dollar. Clearly, that's not the case or there would not be so many of us here.

I live on the East Coast - Massachusetts to be specific ... close to Boston to be more specific so let's not talk about cost of living

I understand that everyone is accustomed to making a certain wage - but when are folks going to understand that unlike applying for a 'job' or working locally, or working with a contractor who can actually look you dead in the face and shake your hand etc., that these buyers on oDesk are in the same predicament we're in - they don't have any idea what they're getting for their money.

I have repeated this over and over again in many posts.  If you don't want to bid on a low rate job, don't bid on it.  If you need to get 'known' take some fixed rate jobs and develop an oDesk portfolio and feedback.

Granted, you are most likely NEVER going to make on oDesk what you'll make outside of oDesk but that's a decision you need to make and determine if it works for you or not.

I have been active on oDesk since September.  Earlier this month I crossed the '300 hour mark' which might not seem like a big deal to anyone except me, but the fact of the matter is that during my first two months here I worked a few fixed rate jobs that seemed to take forever just so I could get feedback and I also accepted several 3-5 hour projects for the same reason.

Currently, I have 9 active assignments. I am working as near to full time as I can possibly work because 40 hours in front of the computer writing articles sometimes just doesn't work - I get brain cramps after a while and simply can't produce any more than that.

In addition to the 9 active assignments, this week I turned down 4 interviews, I closed out 2 jobs that could have gone on longer if I had the available time and I booked 2 jobs for 2 months from now when other jobs that are currently active are finished.

There are HUNDREDS of writers on oDesk who are offering a lower rate than I am (even compared to some of my 'older' projects that have rates lower than my current rate) and yet, I'm able to stay busy.

The bottom line is if you're willing to invest the time, energy and resources needed to get started you won't have a problem getting jobs at a reasonable rate. 

Welcome to oDesk - if you need help putting your profile together please post it in the forums, you'll find folks here are more than willing to help and if you have good samples and are willing to invest the time to post to jobs and put together strong cover letters that sell your skills, you'll get a reasonable rate!!

Good luck!
 

I have cut a portion of your post out for brevity but I'd like to make a few comments.

First, there seems to be a new 'hive' of folks who are dropping in at oDesk and after hours (and sometimes a few days) deciding that we're all working for pennies on the dollar. Clearly, that's not the case or there would not be so many of us here.

I live on the East Coast - Massachusetts to be specific ... close to Boston to be more specific so let's not talk about cost of living

I understand that everyone is accustomed to making a certain wage - but when are folks going to understand that unlike applying for a 'job' or working locally, or working with a contractor who can actually look you dead in the face and shake your hand etc., that these buyers on oDesk are in the same predicament we're in - they don't have any idea what they're getting for their money.

I have repeated this over and over again in many posts.  If you don't want to bid on a low rate job, don't bid on it.  If you need to get 'known' take some fixed rate jobs and develop an oDesk portfolio and feedback.

Granted, you are most likely NEVER going to make on oDesk what you'll make outside of oDesk but that's a decision you need to make and determine if it works for you or not.

I have been active on oDesk since September.  Earlier this month I crossed the '300 hour mark' which might not seem like a big deal to anyone except me, but the fact of the matter is that during my first two months here I worked a few fixed rate jobs that seemed to take forever just so I could get feedback and I also accepted several 3-5 hour projects for the same reason.

Currently, I have 9 active assignments. I am working as near to full time as I can possibly work because 40 hours in front of the computer writing articles sometimes just doesn't work - I get brain cramps after a while and simply can't produce any more than that.

In addition to the 9 active assignments, this week I turned down 4 interviews, I closed out 2 jobs that could have gone on longer if I had the available time and I booked 2 jobs for 2 months from now when other jobs that are currently active are finished.

There are HUNDREDS of writers on oDesk who are offering a lower rate than I am (even compared to some of my 'older' projects that have rates lower than my current rate) and yet, I'm able to stay busy.

The bottom line is if you're willing to invest the time, energy and resources needed to get started you won't have a problem getting jobs at a reasonable rate. 

Welcome to oDesk - if you need help putting your profile together please post it in the forums, you'll find folks here are more than willing to help and if you have good samples and are willing to invest the time to post to jobs and put together strong cover letters that sell your skills, you'll get a reasonable rate!!

Good luck!
 

Well, I'm not attacking you, "sir" Doreen, (LOL!) but perhaps just maybe, you're one of the few successful ones who charge at least $10/hour on here, say among the writers? I mean, you're obviously great at what you do and I don't have stats or anything but unlike you, there are many providers who do struggle to find jobs because they just can't afford to charge lower rates and can't compete with those who charge $2.50 or less.

I'm not offended by your comments at all and you do explain your side really well without sounding demeaning or disrespectful. I commend you for that. (And so I hope you won't take this the wrong way as this is not meant to insult you. I definitely didn't come here to cause trouble.) I just find it a bit odd that you have to defend your position on minimum bids/rates to anyone who dares challenge it. Think about it. How many posts have you made in the last few days concerning this (and I admire you for finding the time to do so despite your workload)? I mean, wow! oDesk should hire you on their marketing team or something. I'm sure you can whip up ads and articles in no time at all to post on every relevant site/forum on the internet! You're zeal and passion amazes me!

Oh, and which freelance sites were you referring to (mmiguel@odesk.com)? Their (those that I know of) system obviously works since it's still very much in place (and has been for quite a while with several buyers and providers involved), though I do hate the fact that you would have to pay a fee just to join the site and/or be able to find better jobs. I mean duh, one of the main reasons why people work is to earn a living. Anyway, I just made my suggestion because I honestly believe that it will benefit oDesk and its buyers and providers. Whichever way this turns out in the end, I truly wish the best for everyone involved. Thanks for your time.

>chuckle< I didn't think you were attacking me - I think some people already think I work for oDesk (laughing).

The 'other' freelance sites that I mentioned are high profile ones, you can find out about them by searching for 'top 10 freelance sites' and you'll see them very clearly - trust me - the  fees, far more time invested and no guarantee of payment (even on hourly jobs) makes them as likely as getting a good job on Craigslist (which I understand some folks have been successful at).

I think there are far more successful folks on oDesk than actually take the time to post in the forums. In fact if you look around, there are really only a select few how complain about the wages and setting minimum rates, those who have 'made' a living at oDesk seldom seem to have these issues.

I am not trying to cram my point of view down anyones throat, obviously since I write for a living I tend to be a strong writer (and trust me person to person I'm no wallflower either) so unfortunately it tends to often sound like ranting (though if I sound demeaning to anyone I apologize for that - it's not intended that way).

I think if you review the oDesk "oConomy" numbers you'll find there are a substantial number of providers who are very successful and making a decent wage. 

I personally just do not see the value in  regulating wages. If I wanted to work on a regulated wage, I'd go to my local friendly shop where I could get a job working 40 hours a week on someone else's schedule, let them set my pay for starting wages and future increases.  My performance would be based versus that of my peers IN the office (which clearly is limited) versus peers of freelancers (who  have the same flexible hours, work loads, etc.).  Personally, I feel this is a much more 'level' playing ground, in spite of competing with overseas providers who can afford to do the work I'm doing at lower rates.

I don't make any bones with potential new buyers that they can find less expensive providers, but I think my history speaks for itself and I set the wage for the job accordingly - I increase as I feel it's appropriate and if that means it's a month later then that's the drill.  I have some 'repeat' buyers who are paying me 20% more than they were paying me a month ago.  Where else can I get that kind of increase (even on an annual basis). My last 'corporate' job I made more money starting out I'll grant you that but my 'annual increase' was 2% - 3% depending on how someone who barely worked with me rated my performance.

And like you I'm offended by these sites that charge up front fees to both buyers and providers. I've seen many comments at times about the fees that oDesk charges, but some of these freelance sites get fees from both buyers and providers - so they are double dipping. They may in fact be in place and have perhaps been in place for a while, but as new freelancers become aware of sites that don't charge fees to get good jobs, oDesk will grow in popularity.  Sites like Elance, LinkedIn, etc., who charge these front and back end fees will slowly but surely lose both buyers and providers. 

Thanks I'll stick to freelancing - and for my time, energy and effort I'll stick with oDesk

oDesk should really be concerned on this issue. It is unfair for the majority of the providers to be rejected from job applications because of 'bid too high' reason. Thank you for this chance.

If you bothered to take the time to look at my profile you'd clearly see I'm not a "Mr" and secondarily I don't work on LOW PAYING jobs.  I don't know if New Zealand pays in US Dollars but US minimum wage isn't $12.50USD  and has not even reached that level our minimum wage is $5.85/hr as of July 24, 2007.

You may consider my argument about not bidding on low rate jobs stupid - and that's certainly your prerogative - course couple that with the fact I've been working 15 years longer than you've been out of college - but what would I know - I didn't see any need for a personal attack here -  with the number of jobs on oDesk that are not "Low Rate" then you certainly stand a good chance of getting work that is in reasonable levels, especially if you take a look at the oDesk economy information which shows on average most jobs pay between $10(USD) and $15(USD) regardless of the geographical location of the buyer or the provider. 
you also fail to take into consideration that New Zealands 'training wage' is considerably less at $9.60 an hour before tax. 

In the case of oDesk (or other freelance sites) it's been widely accepted that setting a minimum wage discourages those who are just learning jobs from applying or even being accepted for jobs. 

You're rate is currently set where you want it to be set - would you like it if the minimum wage at oDesk for your field was set at $12.50 and you never had an opportunity to work on long term assignments because once you ask for an increase your buyers decision becomes easy: Why should I increase your rate when I can go to oDesk and get another provider with similar skills for the 'minimum rate' that oDesk sets for this type of project!! 

You have to see that there are upsides and downsides to both sides of this argument:  Your contention that a minimum wage would encourage better buyers may be valid - but wouldn't setting a minimum wage also discourage providers from improving on their work? 

Think about this with an eye to the bigger picture - remove yourself from the equation and you'll see my point is as valid as yours is.

Well I didn't bother and I don't want to. I still believe that posting such comments take it or leave it is stupid and discouraging to others. One of your (not one person) problem is here the rate is... there are other countries and people too.

The reason why I think is stupid is that I rather find solution and discuss it.
There is no upside argument. You (again not one person) taught buyers to post cheep jobs and they have learned fast. Well maybe we should start to teach them that is not allrigh and work on some good grounds.

Krys

How about that.

So your solution is to make oDesk a mirror of other useless freelance sites where people are paying all kinds of upfront fees.

You want to talk about stupidity - that solution is stupid in my opinion. 

oDesk is where it is today because of the system it runs.  Live with it or don't live with it, it's what it is.  

If you don't like the system at oDesk because it doesn't set minimum rates or require up front fees from buyers then it's your prerogative to find a 'system' that works the way you think it should.

For myself - I like having the prerogative of using oDesk system for bidding and pay scales just the way it is, with no minimums. If I wanted a site that guaranteed me minimums that's where I'd be signed up

The analysis that means something to me:

on XX freelance site for 12 months - job results 0 - posted for 40 positions per month each month - I paid to belong - my cost $200 (plus my time)

on XX freelance site for 24 months - job results 0 - posted for a total of 275 jobs - I paid to belong - my cost $200

oDesk for six months (almost) - jobs posted for 135 - job results: 35 hired for - no charge to belong - total income nearly $5,000

What more analysis do I need

As I said I like how you analyze things and as i said I mean it in good way.

krysikristufek wrote:

As I said I like how you analyze things and as i said I mean it in good way.

 That's how I wound up with a useless accounting certificate - I'm a bean counter at heart
 

Anyway have you try iFreelance?

I've never heard of iFreelance. How does it work?