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Some initial impressions as a new buyer

Hi everyone Smile

I've been on ODesk for about a month, initially as a buyer, as I develop some ideas for a new publishing business. I thought it might be useful to share some experience - not just as a buyer from these last few weeks, but also from the other end of the process, working as a freelance writer both in the last five years and back in the 1980s (yes, I am that old). These comments relate primarily to writing/editing/design work, although the principles are probably applicable to other skills. I have to say, first of all, that I am finding my experience as a seller - even if in the old fashioned way without ODesk - very useful when the "tables are turned" Wink To be fair this is my first time using such a site, but I hope these comments are useful.

So far, I have posted two jobs, in both cases seeking multiple providers for trials, one for writing, one for design. I have created 14 actual assignments, 8 of which have ended, 6 still active. Providers have come from all over - Philippines, India, the US, Israel...about 20 candidates for each job. Generally speaking, my experience to date has been excellent.

So what have I learned ? This is probably stating the glaringly obvious but that is no reason not to do so...

1. There are some good people out there ! Smile I have had some very interesting articles and ideas and input, from responsive, bright, interesting folks !

2. Good cover letters make all the difference - a letter that shows the provider has read the job/brief and reflects some of that back to me in an imaginative way will get a response ! Be specific, and respond with IDEAS - show how you can add value, in other words. You need to find a way to differentiate yourself from other candidates, to make the buyer sit up and say, "hmm, that person sounds interesting..." Applying with care to 5 jobs with good letters is probably going to be more effective than sending standard responses to 20.

3. Check, check and double check your spelling and grammar - applying for a writing job with a profile or letter that includes errors is not going to be effective !

4. Buyers - good briefs help providers. Take time to explain the background to your job, and what you need. The context helps providers give you a better product, certainly on writing work. I have seen some jobs posted with 1-2 line descriptions, which are virtually impossible to apply for as they are too vague.

One thing I also see - and I have a lot of sympathy with this, having been in this situation myself in the past - is people looking for their first job. It's Catch 22 - how do you get a job without a track record on ODesk ? You can't get a job without experience, you can't get experience without a job...awkward ! There are perhaps several ways :

* explain your experience off ODesk - use the resume feature, list all your other experience, even if it is not directly related to the work you are applying for - sensible buyers will understand this
* where possible, provide samples/portfolios from that off ODesk experience (and as with a CV for a "normal job", any claims must be verifiable)
* selectively, take low paid or even unpaid work for experience - I repeat, selectively...don't undervalue yourself !
* find ways to demonstrate your skills elsewhere - e.g., in context of writing, on sites offering "citizen journalism" like Associated Content

Meanwhile, ideas for Odesk:

1. Can there be some way to react to a candidate in some other way than just 'interview' - a way to say "I like your letter/skills, they are not suitable for this job, but let's stay in touch for other things".... ????

2. Can there be a mechanism for providers to offer "references" for non Odesk work they have done in the past - e.g. contact details for a former employer ? One could do so for a "normal job", why not for ODesk ?

3. Mentors - I suspect there are other buyers out there, like me, who have been on the other end of the process as providers themselves, for the various different skill sets. And experienced providers, too. Could ODesk find a systematic way to use such people, if they are willing, to act as mentors for new providers, e.g. by offering regular articles for the forum or in some other way ? Smile Or, equally, experienced buyers as "mentors" for new buyers ? I would certainly welcome that !

Anyways, that's probably enough for now...comments/views/criticism welcome Smile

Best to you all, and keep up the good work, ODesk Laughing out loud

Graham

Vote Result

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Score: 10.0, Votes: 1
Excellent post Graham

Thanks for the post. It is indeed very insightful and should prove helpful to both oDesk buyers and providers, especially those who are trying to get started. The key point I would like to reiterate (and I can not emphasize this enough) - please do put some thought into job openings and/or applications. Finding the right providers requires due diligence and it starts with a thoughtful and thorough job opening. Conversely, landing a job takes work also, especially your first. This is true both in the "real world" and on oDesk. Your likelihood of getting an interview is much better with 5 well thought out (and spell checked) applications tailored to the specific job opening than 20 boiler-plate cover letters that say "hire me, I do good work".

As for the suggestions for oDesk, please do keep them coming. We really appreciate feedback from users and we take them very seriously. In response to the 3 in the post:

  1. We will be releasing revised rejection reasons very soon and as part of that feature, buyers will be able to give their own reason for not moving forward with the applicant. Maybe the provider is not right for this job but could be perfect for the next one? As long as you don't give out your contact info, you can write whatever you like.
  2. The idea of "references" have been floated around for a while now. It does make sense and it is something we do in the "real world" job market. However, I do wonder what additional benefit it would add over the current oDesk feedback scores and comments? After all, a provider would probably not provide a reference unless he's fairly certain that the buyer will comment positively. (One could even argue that we have references in the "real-world" BECAUSE we don't have the transparent work history of the candidates. In a market and workplace like oDesk, where your history is 100% public, you might not need references. Everything you've done is there for all to see - the good, bad, and sometimes, the ugly.)
  3. Mentorship is also a great topic that has been discussed frequently here at oDesk. This would be a great on-boarding method for newbies to oDesk. We are investigating the necessary framework to facilitate the formation of such relationships (possibly including financial incentives). Great suggestion, we're on it. Stay tuned!

Again, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and suggestions with us and the oDesk community. Keep the insights and feedbacks coming!

Yang

oDesk

Thanks for the feedback !

Dear Yang

Appreciate that, I hope it is of use ! Smile

On the ideas :

1. Good to hear revised rejection mechanism is under development ! (as a side issue, can we maybe try to find a nicer word than "reject" ? it does seem a little, well, harsh. Not sure what to replace it with though - decline ?)

2. References - yes, I understand once someone has a history on ODesk. But my point was mainly about references from people who are brand new on the site - they may have 5, 10, 15 years experience in the "real world" but currently there is no way to do the due diligence on that by contacting a former client/employer. So you have the classic catch 22 - can't get a job without a history, can't get a history without a job. Surely ODesk can find a way round this ? One would not want to put referees contact details on the site, but perhaps providers could have a button saying "ask me for references" and then they put buyer in touch with the referee (who, of course, had previously agreed with the provider that they would answer such queries).

3. Mentors - good to hear something is "in the works", look forward to hearing more Smile

Best

Graham

What I did

grahamredford wrote:
2. References - yes, I understand once someone has a history on ODesk. But my point was mainly about references from people who are brand new on the site - they may have 5, 10, 15 years experience in the "real world" but currently there is no way to do the due diligence on that by contacting a former client/employer. So you have the classic catch 22 - can't get a job without a history, can't get a history without a job. Surely ODesk can find a way round this ? One would not want to put referees contact details on the site, but perhaps providers could have a button saying "ask me for references" and then they put buyer in touch with the referee (who, of course, had previously agreed with the provider that they would answer such queries).

3. Mentors - good to hear something is "in the works", look forward to hearing more Smile

Best

Graham

Graham I hope you're finding your experience on oDesk going well I have been reading your posts the last couple of days and want to say 'kudos' for providing insight from the buyers perspective. I am both a buyer and provider and I have enjoyed my experience here a great deal.

I wanted to comment about your 'references' portion here because like you I felt that there had to be some way to bring my 'non virtual' life to oDesk with me and make sure that I had something to offer my buyers.

It's not possible to see it here because I have the profile marked as 'private' but when I first signed up to oDesk last fall, I opened a 'LinkedIn' account  and requested references from other people to fill in the 'blanks'.  I then linked this into my profile (my freelance profile) for people to see what I'd done as far as references.  Honestly I never really finished filling it out because I started working sooner than I anticipated and found that I didn't need it.

If people take the time to explore some of the tools that are out there, we have many options to utilize our 'offline' experience when posting for 'online' positions!

Doreen

That makes sense :)

Dear Doreen

Ah yes that would work Smile good ploy !

Regards

Graham

Verified offline references?

Maybe we could offer the option for new providers to have some or all of their credentials verified by some third party and clearly display the "verified credential" icon in the provider profile? 

We've considered partnering with verification vendors to do just that. However the cost of such a service could be prohibitive. As you know, oDesk accounts are free so we don't make any money until a provider starts working. Therefore we probably will not be able to foot the bill for providers who want to have their offline credentials/references verified. Alternatively, if we pass the cost to providers, then some providers will be priced out of these services, which is not cheap, especially in certain parts of the world.

There is no arguing that offline references, especially verified ones could be helpful for new providers to establish their online credibility. However, let's not ignore the fact that providers like Doreen, and literally hundreds of others every week, still manage to land their first jobs and start work on oDesk. All it takes is a little patience and A LOT of thoughtfulness in your application! As Graham pointed out, if you clearly articulate to the buyer how you can provide value specifically to his job opening, then buyers will want to talk to you! 

Yang

oDesk

Linked In

yang wrote:

Maybe we could offer the option for new providers to have some or all of their credentials verified by some third party and clearly display the "verified credential" icon in the provider profile? 

We've considered partnering with verification vendors to do just that. However the cost of such a service could be prohibitive. As you know, oDesk accounts are free so we don't make any money until a provider starts working. Therefore we probably will not be able to foot the bill for providers who want to have their offline credentials/references verified. Alternatively, if we pass the cost to providers, then some providers will be priced out of these services, which is not cheap, especially in certain parts of the world.

There is no arguing that offline references, especially verified ones could be helpful for new providers to establish their online credibility. However, let's not ignore the fact that providers like Doreen, and literally hundreds of others every week, still manage to land their first jobs and start work on oDesk. All it takes is a little patience and A LOT of thoughtfulness in your application! As Graham pointed out, if you clearly articulate to the buyer how you can provide value specifically to his job opening, then buyers will want to talk to you! 

Yang

oDesk

Yang, LinkedIn offers this service free (at one level) while they do offer a paid service the account I have (and have references in) is a free account.

Doreen 

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