I can't compete...

Hey, I just noticed this (I quit coming back to read the string when it got... um.. tense). Thank you. I'll recheck my portfolio. You don't by any chance recall where you noticed typos do you? No reason you would, but if you did... And what was the significance of the Flesch rating? I don't have an enormous admiration for Flesch myself, but is there a particular level that is considered good form at oDesk?

I apply for few things here, as you can imagine, but I really like the people I'm working with now and I'm glad to have the opportunity to work for them.

I hope you didn't take that being critical. Each buyer prefers different levels. But, in most cases I've found that a Flesch reading of around 12 is what 99.9% of the buyers I've worked with request. Now of course this depends.  For instance if I'm working on an Ebook I try to stick around 10 (look up Flesch in Wiki and you'll see what they tell you about the various levels) and I just finished a website that came in around a 15.  So it's different.  Unfortunately I don't recall where I saw the typos but I think it was on one of the blogs so you might just want to do a quick look see - if it was that bad it would have stuck in my mind

Good luck again!

Doreen

Melissa, one of the things you might want to consider is filling in your profile a little bit.  Buyers are looking for some indication that you have the skills needed to work on the jobs they're posting and you offer little in your portfolio that explains what you offer as versus another provider.

You have put in a fairly extensive resume but you've failed to put in any type of an overview explaining why you're a good person to have on a team, you've taken only the readiness test and you have offered nothing in terms of a portfolio.

One option for you may be to check in the category where you're posting and find out what others are including as portfolio items and what tests they are taking.

This could help you improve your overall profile and help you get a 'step up' in applying for positions.

Good luck! Doreen

I just saw a posting for a job that was filled by a person who, frankly, had more education than I, but she had no real history as a writer.  She was hired for a job as a writer for $1.22 an hour!  Her test scores were higher than mine, suggesting she has a better command of the English language than would I, but she's in the Phillipines...  How is that possible? 

While I'd like to believe it's possible she really did do that well on the tests, if English is not her native language, how does someone like that get upper ten percent (scoring first place in one English test) in all tests related to English?

Are they now having others take their tests and write their profiles?  I don't want to sound like a racist idiot, but how is her command of the English language better than mine?

No real history as a writer, and a cheapskate buyer ... recipe for craptastic results unless he's lucky. Often these are "content spinning" rewriting jobs and they are happy with an approximation of English that might fool Google.

I lost a bid for content spinning to someone who did it for $1.11 an hour.

It's spelled Philippines, BTW.

When I lived in Mexico, my command of the English language was the same as when I lived in the USA. When I was in Korea, my English did not suddenly become sub-standard.

I have met a few non-native speakers whose English ability was definitely in the top 10%. Some were diplomats and international businessmen, some were their children, and some were just linguistically gifted. One man could even make bilingual double entendres.

It's easier in written English, because the words hold still on the page and accents don't get in the way.

You do sound like one ... if anyone cheats on the tests it becomes painfully obvious to the buyer when they see the work that is done, You can't hire someone to stand there and do the work for you.

Looking at your profile and the articles I can get to: The overview statement is vague and typical of an old-style resume objective instead of being a brief "what I do" statement.

Your certification statement is not helping you ... it is glaringly obvious that you  stuck something there to make your profile hit 100%. Buyers would be looking for a Cisco cert, a Red Hat cert, not "look at my test scores".

I recommend removing the "couldn't graduate because of lack of funds/transfer" from the resume.  You attended ... that's all you need to say.

I recommend removing the menage a trois photo and replacing it with nothing or a clear head shot.

I recommend removing the "Though I am older, please do not mistake this for old." statement..  I'm older than dirt, as anyone who looks at dates on my resume can figure out, but I'm going to just dazzle them with my wisdom, not remind them I'm old enough to have been Obama's baby sitter.

I'm getting interviews ...  the usual ratio in meatspace for a non-specialist job is 50-100 applications will get you 5-10 interviews, and out of that you get one job.

Have you tried other writing outlets? Associated Content, Constant Content, Demand Studios, and Helium all pay modest sums for freelancing. If you are stuck in Huachuca you could do some local travel and history articles for them that wouldn't compete with oDesk's market.

sgoble, to be frank, I'd really rather not get any further responses from you.  You are more adversarial than helpful and when I see your login name in the response, I get a shudder down my spine because I know your intent is to slam me rather than be helpful.

Oh, and thanks for the corrections in my post.  I just got back a couple days ago from a long trip that was three assigned articles for one of the AAA magazines here in the US.  I guess for someone who can't write, I'm doing pretty well here, having several articles already published and several more on the way.  I have been extremely tired and nursing a broken ankle for the last several days (long story, pushed down some stairs by a ghost, injured ankle)

Please go back to whatever hole it is you came from and let the rest of us, those who are really involved here, to get back to our work.

-duplicate post-

Wow. I find it so amusing that you are so quick to question the qualifications of a new provider from the Philippines because she does not speak or write native English, etc . You can't even accept criticisms from others and the fact that there is always someone in this world who's better than you.

Sgoble has valid points on your profile and it's also funny that you now brand him as a "stalker". You even made a new thread about him. Nice.

Hmmm, odd, that I didn't mention any names or logins yet you assume it's sgoble.  You must believe, as I do, that sgoble is harrassing me.  sgoble has no valid points to make so far as I'm cocncerned as he/she/it tried to guess where I was and was wrong by oh so many miles. 

sgoble tried to diminish me by suggesting I was "stuck in Huachuca" when my portfolio shows I do more than local stories. 

Point in fact, I've only just returned from a trip from the other side of the country.  Seems to me sgoble is the one with a complex related to his/her/its location and feels "stuck" as I've never been stuck.  Instead of suggesting I go elsewhere to work, perhaps it's sgoble that should go elsewhere since they've been here for years and only just picked up their first assignment.  Seems to me it's sgoble that is "stuck" since he/she/it looked at my portfolio and still made the gigantic leap that I was the one who was "stuck".  Psychologists have a term for this, called projecting.

As far as criticism, I'm all for "constructive" criticism.  sgoble's motives were less than pure, his/her/their low self esteem shining through when they started attacking me personally.

Finally, I'm all for ending this thread at this point since you and sgoble have reduced it to this low point, where there is no longer any real conversation and empathy happening here, as was happening prior to sgoble's personal attacks against me.  I'm sure it made sgoble seem superior in their own eyes, bullies tend to need someone to pick on to feel better about themselves, but all it truly served to do was make him/her/it look ridiculous and childish.

Sgoble and I reduced this thread to a low point? I beg to disagree. You did that by yourself by starting to question the qualifications of a Filipino provider just because he/she is better than you in English which is not the point of this thread. 

I don't need to be an Einstein to figure out that you are referring to sgoble in your other thread and I don't believe he is harassing you. You branded sgoble as a "stalker" based on what he has wrote about you but on my point of view and many others, his points are actually valid. You even added some statements that are irrelevant to this thread. It seems to me that you have more "stalker" abilities than sgoble since you seem to know more about him that what his profile suggests. For example, you said in the other thread that sgoble is a lurker for 2 years and he recently got his first assignment. Do you even know sgoble's history here in oDesk? Only an admin/mod can determine that in detail which I'm sure you aren't. What if he was busy for the past 2 years and he only had the time to seriously apply to oDesk jobs just recently?

If you have any problems with other providers viewing your profile and criticizing you, just set it into "Authenticated" or "Private" so that you won't be "stalked" again.

And take note of the post above on why a Filipino provider is better at English than you. English is the main language of the USA but it doesn't mean all Americans are extremely good at it.

Nancy, a critique of the oDesk profile is not a personal attack. I will point out that you claim I have impure motives and shiny low self-esteem, I am professionally jealous of you because you are a creative writer and I am a technical writer, I am a bully, and I am childish. 

All because I am pointing out that you only have ONE usable link in your portfolio ... you list some yet-to-be published credits, dead links, and links to a AAA site that flips me over to the AZ AAA portal because I don't know which zip code to enter. (The Home and Away Magazine Web site is open to all residents within the red shaded territory on the map. Please enter zip code below.) The Sierra Vista Herald article is the only one any prospective buyer can click and see.

If your work is not visible at the other end of a click, for whatever reasons, it's useless as a portfolio. Worse, it makes you look careless for not checking the links.

All because I am pointing out that it would be better to list no certificates than put up a statement about taking tests where the buyer expects to see a certificate for something related to your skills. They know where the tests are listed.

All because I am pointing out a few places where a writer doesn't have to wait for a buyer, where it is easy to build up a portfolio of articles to show your ability at focus, keywording, LSI and SEO.  Your assumption that I want you to stop writing here is not based on what I wrote. We're not in the same job market here ... I'm looking for hardcore techie stuff. Those sites I mentioned are where I get to write what I want, how I want it, and get paid a little (or a lot) for something that is fun to write.

If you chose to take offense, what could I do?

Nancy, I think some people have a knack for being very good at tests, I do not believe for a moment that 99.9% of people here are 'fudging' the tests or cheating.

I think it's careless to assume that just because someone in the Phillipines has a good test score that it's a result of cheating, since it's nearly impossible to know if they were raised in a home that is English speaking. 

Personally I also think that it's unfair to assume that someone who isn't a native English speaker cannot do well on tests.  One must assume that personal profiles are done by the person and not by a third party.  Doreen

That point was a little unfair. A lot of my Greek friends speak English flawlessly, to native standard. Most of them even understand my regional accent!

They are taught the language at school, from the age of five, and watch a lot of US/UK shows on TV. English is so widely spoken that nationality is no guide to fluency.

...English is the second tongue of the Philippines and it has the biggest English speaking population in Asia. My, my for a person to accused somebody that they were degrading her, Nancy sure is showing a lot of it herself. It seems to me, Nancy doesn't even knew anything about the Philippines and yet find a way to degrade a member, who did nothing but apply for an assignment at $1.22, which btw, is higher than local pay rate.

So my message to Ms. Nancy Dickinson, If you want to post non-accusatory message, please get all the facts first.

Have A Nice Day!

I am originally not from the United States, but I can ascertain that my English skills had been highly superior to 99% of all Americans at my age level  in standardized test after my 1st year in the United States of learning English.

This is not to say that I am in anyway a master of English, I think it goes to show how in the world there is so much mediocrity that it's not really that hard to be at the top percentiles with a bit more effort and focus.

 In my perspective, it's sharp mental abilities (and access to proper tools of course) and not place of birth that will determine a person's language ability.  But then again, we can't blame people for having ignorant preconceived biases based on false perceptions that make them think otherwise.

It's very conceivable that an ambitious Pinoy will beat 90% of all Americans in language. In all truth, the competition isn't that great.(This is based on the general law of averages and the bell shaped curve of course, not a social commentary on America).

 Nancy, sadly, you were the one that made this post negative. I thought I would include a statement here, that while adding no great substantive content to your initial point of discussion, at least will serve to make you realize that 

1. you were the one that began the deconstruction of an interesting post  and

2. people were not so much attacking you as showing you with proof your  incredibly derogatory biases towards people not American. It's an insult to their intelligence and to their hard work to doubt their ability to score highly in standardized tests.

Odesk is nothing more than a marketplace that takes competition to the next level.  Selling products or services in a competitive marketplace is always about how much more a provider can offer to it's client, either through cheaper prices, better quality, higher reptuation, etc.

 The advantage of people in other countries like Philippines is that they can afford to compete on a lower price level not because they are sub par but because they take advantage of favorable exchange rates. They are able to get more for the $1.22 per hour than we in the United States could ever get.And going off the same logic, a client that hires someone in the Philippines can be thought to be a better person because they are choosing to engage in economic activity with people that will get the highest source of Utility for every dollar given.

 In order to compete successfully in Odesk, you need to distinguish yourself in someway, offer something better. The most powerful type of offer in my opinion is REPUTATION, but to get there, like many people point out, might require doing some initial jobs under a more competitive rate. Once you build your reputation through stellar comments and high ratings, your services can demand a higher premium.

Why? Again, because in a world full of mediocrity, it just takes a little bit more ability to be above the masses, cream always rises to the top, and smart people will understand that hiring the right person is a lot more valuable than taking chances with someone who only dabbles in mediocrity.

 I wish you the best.

While many others made useful relevant posts to the woman in question in regards to competing on oDesk, your comment was neither useful or substantiative. I have witnessed a resentment towards Americans in my travels that borders ever-so-slightly towards envy. I believe your thinly veiled insult towards American intellect was indicative of that. You could have made your point without trying to put us down.

Look, life is hard for us all. Sometimes when we don't understand another's culture and background it is easy to make assumptions about their intellect and quality of life. But, it doesn't help us to understand or relate to one another any better. And it doesn't make it accurate either.

It would be ridiculous for me to make a statement that "It's very conceivable that an ambitious American will beat 90% of all (name any nation) in language."

If I dared to make such a statement I would be beat with the "there goes another snotty American" stick so fast and hard... it wouldn't be funny.

So please don't try to overcompensate for your own self-esteem issues by bashing us. We all have our own issues to contend with. We are all human.

I have been following this thread and the others related to it for sometime now and lest I be seen as an "enemy", I just would like to share how I feel. I feel a bit disheartened by some of the posts. I am a Filipino, not really a native English  speaker but I somehow managed to get to the top 10% for the English sentence structure. I have taken the test on my own ( no help whatsoever from google, etc.) although I really cannot say that my English is perfect. When I started with oDesk, I actually charged buyers $1/ hour. Unfair as it may seem, people have to understand that here in the Philippines, $1/ hour can already get you near the minimum wage allowed by our government. Since what we earn here at oDesk is free from any mandatory deductions requird by our government, $1 per hour can be somewhat sufficient especially if you spend around 16 hours in fron of your computer. Aside from that, most of us Filipinos here in oDesk have a separate day job that sustains us.

I hope Nancy would understand why there have been some strong reactions in this thread and the others.

PS

Learning and being very good with the English language had nothing to do with where you come from. Accents may vary but if it's the written word that we are talking about then where you are from won't have much value.

I am not saying that your English skills are sub-standard, I don't even know you to be able to say that. But I am saying that time has shown that if you bid much lower than everyone else, some buyers will hire you soley because you were cheap. Time has also shown that buyers who hire cheap labor often get poor service and come right back around angry, jaded, and sometimes unwilling to provide any upfront percentage for future fixed-rate candidates.

So, there is a backlash that we all suffer when a person bids lower than normal. When we compete, we like to know that the people we compete with are competing fair. You know that no American can bid against $1 per hour, so you are consciously or unconsciously eliminating the competition.

Now personally, I try to charge top dollar for my services because I feel like I am worth it. I will hold out until I meet with a buyer who feels the same. I've been here less than 3 weeks and 4 buyers have hired me that felt the same. It hasn't been easy either because we are all feeling the pressure from the failing economy here. And people were bidding very low against me when I was hired. Some bids were too low for writing and web development, but I got a reasonable rate considering how new I am for writers and web developers, so it can be done.

I'm not saying that you have to bid higher, you can do what you want, it's your life. But I'm having difficulty believing that providers are at the top of their game if they are consistently bidding at the bottom. And eliminating the competition by bidding lowest instead of using your skills to stand out is a bit unfair.

Bidding very low because you question whether or not you can compete based on your skills is what it looks like. Is that good enough for you? If you were confident in your ability, why wouldn't you want more money? If I had your exchange rate I'd still want the most money I was capable of earning. So, I'd be doing my best work, trying to get good feedback so that I can bid at a higher rate no matter who was competing against me.

Seriously, who is in this to earn anything less than they are worth?

...Of course, no one would want anything less than what they are worth. In my case, the rock-bottom rate is more of a strategy. I do not have anything to show the buyers that they are assured of the quality of my work. It is really unfair for those who cannot go that low but I have to do something to get at least one project. Now that I have competed two projects, I have already adjusted my rate because I have already something to show the buyers that I can do a good job. Once I get two or three more projects completed, I'd be raising my rates again.

I'm wishing you the very best success here at oDesk.

thanks!