Blogger calls oDesk "slavery"

His arguments aren't very well thought out. Obviously if you're going to be applying an hourly-rate model to an internet-based outsourcing solution, you need some kind of measurable metrics so you at the very minimum know what's going on, and what you're paying for.

I have a couple of eClients that I work with directly (I invoice and get paid all using PayPal) and charge a respectable rate for my eServices. Sorry, I'm still stuck in the ePhase of the eWeb. ... Anyway, they can trust me (whether they know it or not) because I'm not a dirty stinking thief, but you can't say that about everyone. Work an hour, bill two, that's fine for a couple of bucks, but what happens when you're charging $30 or $40? Or when you're just trying to get some quick work done but don't have a Big Budget (TM)?

In extremely close work proximities, you just pop by and see how everything's going. There's no equivilent in the great wide interweb for that. oDesk comes pretty close -- I'm not really comfortable with the "random" screen-shot feature, but that's because I'm too lazy to setup a dedicated Virtual Machine for "work" while keeping the rest of my machine partitioned for whatever.

The webcam feature, though, I just turned off. Can't have the ladies lusting after my very pixelated handsomeness while I'm trying to work.

I capture 8 gypsies and put them in cages. Now they works for bread and waters and I control them via oDesk. My brother Bilo watch them, they cannot escape. Very nice. Great success! 

Simply put, I think oDesk has taken care of buyers concerned with spending big money hourly AND provided great opportunites for web editors, and is a new service that hopefully will cultivate a fair balance for both sides for lasting success.

out of curiosity - what is oDesk's cut of the provider's rate?

Sigh, socialists do not usually understand free enterprise. They commonly misunderstand that free enterprise on both sides of the equation is just the opposite of slavery, it is freedom.  A provider enters into this relationship knowing the terms and freely, voluntarily, and willingly accepts the terms in exchange for compensation he/she could get nowhere else.  Calling it "slavery" really shows a lack of basic economic understanding. 

I am a new provider on odesk.  I love the way it provides opportunities for small IT shop in India.  I do feel monitoring the mouse clicks, and random screenshots are a but too much.  I personally do not feel comfortable having someone watch over me while I work.  I like to be left alone, and get paid when I deliver, which is why I like the fixed price model.

Well, I though providers can quit at any time... while slaves cannot. I think that is what makes slavery, not the overseeing.
Besides, every manager oversees his/her workers in some way (at real-world companies).

Actually, the only required tool is oDesk Team, which sends the screenshot in every 10 minute interval, which isn't too much. On the other hand, buyers want to make sure that the provider is really billing for the hours he is working (I could clickety-click all day and quickly copy-paste some code from the net, and charge him with a full 8 hours; and there weren't much to do about this without the screenshots).

Also, if you can agree with your buyer (he doesn't care, or doesn't have the time to review the screenshots, etc.), you don't even have to use oDesk Team, but add the worked hours as offline time. It's not encouraged but permitted. So that you don't feel 'big brothered'...

Szekely Szabolcs

I have worked in traditional work places where certain employees spent most of their time doing things online that had nothing to do with work. I think it would be great if every employer had something like oDesk to watch their employees because even if the employee is in the same room with their boss, if their screen is out of view there is a big chance they might be surfing. I don't think it is intrusive at all-it just makes sure the person is doing what they are getting paid to do.

I have written a detailed review of the oDesk service in this post

The Blogger in question's point of view strikes me as ever so slightly surreal.  As someone familiar with the fine art of trolling since the early days of BBS's and FidoNet, I can't help but wonder if that post was written under a bridge.  The language is sensationalist, emotional, and at least to my mind, lacking any real understanding of how the North American white-collar enterprise space works.

The fact of the matter is that every employer worth working for monitors his/her staff.  They have to;  it is a dereliction of duty to the success of the corporate body if they don't.  I have worked many places in over 15 years in the industry, and in every case, I was accountable for how I spent my day.  Engineering firms, law firms, sales firms, manufacturing firms...  If I'm going to expect to be paid for 8 hours of work a day, five days a week, my employer has the right to expect some bang for his/her buck.

In at least two small-shop IT firms, I've been only paid for billable hours.  So if I spend four hours in a day doing research, of which one hour yielded results we could charge a customer for, then I got paid 1 hour.  In many respects, oDesk is a better work environment;  I can charge for the time required to deliver a solution.

I question if the Blogger has ever heard of "commission-plus-minimum" sales environments...  if you aren't selling, you aren't earning.  This sort of self-monitored enterprise space has led to some of the worst customer satisfaction experiences ever talked about in terms of needless up-selling and FUD pressure.  The bigger the sale, the bigger the commission;  zero value add.  The sales numbers are the monitoring tools here, and you can tell someone reads them, because they pass out bonuses for highest margins and volumes.

I was "monitored" by a time clock at one employer, a billing application at another, a team-leader at a third.  I can't think of one job I took real pride in where the boss didn't care enough to pay attention to his staff.  "Paying attention" is monitoring, be it with a morning meeting about yesterday's progress or a requirement to spend the last hour of the day filling in an electronic work-log for billing.

At least one other poster here has remarked that there is an immense amount of freedom that comes with the oDesk experience.  I agree.  When there is work to be done, I do it.  I get paid.  The rest of the time, I'm not stuck at an office with zero to do hoping my boss doesn't decide I'm not productive enough and turn my life upside down by laying me off.  I'm not throwing 2h of my free time away every day in unpaid commutes.  I'm not spending $120+ a month in parking for the privilege of trying to find "busy work" when my boss comes around.

 oDesk's workspace auditing tools make it simple and effective for the "buyer to beware".  The Age of White Collar Entitlement ("I spent 10K on a degree... pay me to sit in my office with a tie and look cool") is gone.  If the North American white-collar enterprise space hadn't abused the privilege of a salary, Corporate North America would have stayed home instead of going Offshore.  The New Economy paradigm is painfully simple:  If the work isn't getting done, I'm not getting paid.  If the work is getting done, I am.  It really is that simple.

  It is also an excellent tool for me, the Provider, to use in ensuring top-drawer customer service.  My work is documented;  I use the memo function on a 15 minute timer and combined with the screen-shot function, I can review work done to date on the project without having to have a wizard's memory about what was done for which of five clients I have.  The biggest hurdle to cross in the oDesk experience is sucking up the revelation that you're competing in a global market economy.

 Of course, you have already been competing in a global market economy since the 1980's, but it is really in your face through oDesk. There aren't any layers of corporate management strata between you and the bare light of truth here.  I'm an IT guy living in Montreal, Canada, bidding on contracts around the globe against other providers with good credentials whose cost of living is one-half, one-third or one-quarter what mine is.  I can't coast;  I have to provide a value-add up front, or the bottom-line wins.  That's not slavery;  that's the refinement of the capitalism to its logical peak.

 oDesk's monitoring environment forces the slothful out of the market space.  It allows a buyer to see the value-add of skilled and experienced people vs not.  In a fully virtualized workspace, where not one of my "bosses" is even in the same time zone as I am, I can't conceive of a way that any intelligent person looking to buy my skill-hours would accept a $500 credit-card charge sight-unseen.

 "Oh, no... trust me.  I worked really hard on that.  Yep.  Five hundred of your hard-earned dollars hard.  No.  Really.  Trust me."

I should send him a bill for $500 for consulting services and article writing.  No evidence of work done, no evidence of contractual requirement, just a bill.  When he questions why he should pay, I should remind him he doesn't want accountability, and I claim the work was done, so pay up.  I wonder what he'd say then?

 Thanks for reading,

Michel (Independant oDesk Provider since Feb 2008)

Anything that involves an exchange of cash needs monitoring of some form or another:

• ride a taxi, and you get metered
• go to an internet cafe, and your hours are monitored
• pilots have a device called a "black box"
• park your car and time is monitored with cameras
• in the old days, you use bundy clock to work
• there are cctv cameras in many office environment intended to at least monitor and record people's movements and activities
• when you buy pepsi or coke, the sales clerk enters the transaction into a box called a cash register with the transaction details and time stamp
• all your phone calls are monitored so they can bill you monthly
• go to singapore and you have cameras all over the place, they can even catch you when you spew out a bubble gum
• when you travel around the world, you bring your passport to record your itinerary
• you use twitter to record your daily activities (although this does not involve any cash)
• every email or activity you do online are recorded by the biggest big brother of all, that is Google. you won't imagine how much we are being monitored
• use your car and the computer box goes to work
• give birth, you get a birth certificate with dates and details of the child
• get married, you get a marriage certificate and this is filed in public archives
• you die, your family gets a death certificate, you are placed 12feet under the ground, all of these documented

All of these are happening since birth till death. If monitoring equates to slavery, then the world has become a slavery marketplace. The moronic blogger was only writing a link bait so he gets a lot of links in the process. He succeeds. Congratulations.

Wow, I'm stunned at the blogger's post... Definitely does not have his ducks in a row!

I for one like the monitoring for hourly jobs. It not only offers the buyer that 'sense of security' by being able to check up and see that you are working... but it also give providers the security of knowing that they will be paid for the time that they have worked. For me, that is a big concern as I have had some bad experiences with other freelancing websites in the past. Having oDesk team lets me concentrate on what's important... the work! Not worrying about the mundane administrative overhead that oDesk takes care of is one of the greatest benefits of this service. Not to mention working at home and the diverse selection of job postings available at any given time.

Cheers oDesk!!  

First argument, Trust is veried, without the monitoring system (imperfect as they may be) how can buyers who offered jobs on hourly basis, gauge, whether a provider thay hired half across the world is actually doing anything. Argue that and celebrate that!

Are you allowed to look at Paris Hilton's pics when you're at the office or are you allowed to check your personal e-mail, or is that Allen's definition of rendering quality services. because, those are no longer your time, those are times you have allocated to the buyer when you apply for the said job and got hired.

Second argument, how can there have been an in-depth reporting when Allen did not even mentioned that, it was not the BUYER who's controlling the monitoring system, but the PROVIDER. It's not like it was online 24-7 and monitoring us all the time, wherever we go.

So, what Allen refuse to tell you, is that you can check your personal e-mail or the latest Paris Hilton pics, as long as you are not connected to the oDesk team. You control oDesk Team, not the buyer and definitely not Allen.

Third argument, YES, ALLEN IS KIDDING YOU, next time this guru of false information swashbuckle his bucaneering machismo, please check his facts first, we, the provider, control our time, but part of it is surrendered to our buyer as per our agreement.

We don't get whipped, because we need to go and perform personal hygenic activity, we don't get beaten for smoking a cigarette (some does) and we definitely don't end up for the worse just because we want to eat our meals, we just disconnect ourselves from oDesk Team, and Walah, our time is ours again.

We are not slaves, we are PROVIDERS, that may not mean a lot to Allen who makes big bucks conjuring up ghosts that does not exist! We are decent people working on a decent jobs, but then again, EVERYBODY IS A CRITIC!

Must agree with most of the comments here.

I moved to Greece, am still struggling with the language, but have found a nice way of making a living without having to worry about that.

I can sit out in the sun with a cold beer whilst I work.

I can have a cigarette break whenever I want.

For the first time in years I can watch the European Football Championship, without having to beg the boss for time off work.

Being a slave is such a hard life
 

Martyn

trying to find a good competent freelancer is really hard.

take odesk away: try some of the other freelancer website out there.
i dont think u'll have a good time as a buyer.

for me, the absolute MOST prescious thing: time.

if i lose time, i lose money.

other freelancer websites: u put out a project.  u get bidders.  u make an escrow payment.  some freelancer has blindly said he can do the work.  several days later after talking and talking, u come to the realisation that this guy has no clue whatsoever what u wanted.

problem: watsed time.  lost clients.  o k, so u get ur escrow money back.

u repost the project.  same cycle again!!  the new freelancer u get: u have no idea if they will deliver.

ocassionaly, u do come across some genuine freelancers who are good at what they do.  from my expreince, these are hard to find.

i've learnt to interview and question and make a solid enough spec to try and minimise the 'freelancer will waste ur time' factor.

odesk, changes the rules.  at least u can see work being done - or at least something being done!

even then, this isn't fullproof against dodgy suppliers (who might decide they are happy to click away and waste time doing a 1 hour job in 5 hours) - but i think it's the next best thing.

i do think that the original poster of the article does have a point.  the problem is: the world of freelancers are not honest.  if every single provider were honest, then his post is valid and he has a point.  but until that day comes: odesk, please don't go away!

odesk: does get it wrong!  i have been speaking to a supplier who has had a rough time.  i won't go into that one here.  i'll leave him to take it up with odesk.