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Would You Hire a Department Head from the Philippines?

Hi; I've used Filipinos in the past for low level work and my experience with them is that they are less creative and skillful than my domestic employees. This is obviously a broad strokes generalization but it seems to hold true for the vast majority of employees.

I have a position opening up for a department head soon and it does not require a physical presence for any work. I'm tempted to consider a lower cost country, especially PI, since we have a lot of workers in that area/time zone. I've never hired an executive or even a manager from the Philippines though. And obviously if the talent isn't there I'll go with another area because it doesn't make sense to save a few dollars to have an incapable higher-up.

Just wanted to get some opinions from the other employers here--would you even consider hiring this type of position out of PI?

Vote Result

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Score: 1.9, Votes: 20
Since we are generalising,

Since we are generalising, even decent contractors in third world countries charge rates equivalent to the global market value. There are may Filipino contractors at Odesk with high rates and the talent to match. Regardless of where you hire, you will receive what you pay for.

You don't think the local

You don't think the local cost of living is a factor? I'd be surprised if someone in a 3rd world country charged the same $30/hr (or thereabout) that a US position would demand.

The virtual world has it's own dynamics

Ashan D. wrote:
You don't think the local cost of living is a factor? I'd be surprised if someone in a 3rd world country charged the same $30/hr (or thereabout) that a US position would demand.

Forget about "US" and "India" and "France.

This is a worldwide virtual marketplace and a skill level finds it's own price level.

For example, my hour is worth "x" and it does not matter where I am. I could be anywhere. Nobody (apart from myself) really knows where I am. It doesn't matter. We're basically all "on the Internet." I sell my skill at a level. If I were elsewhere I would not change that price, why should I?

Your mistake is that you think you can get $ 30 worth of quality from a $ 3 contractor simply because that contractor is somewhere you perceive as "cheap" - If the contractor is good he'll be in demand, get more work than he can handle, so will raise his price until his capacity is full with projects at the price he can demand because of his quality.

The cheap ones are cheap because their work is not in as much demand so they have to compete on price rather than quality.

There are people offering to do German translations for $ 4.00 (and less) an hour. If your theory held true I'd not be getting any work. I *DO* though, and if I lived in a beach house in a "cheap" country I'd still charge the same rate. For no reason other than the fact that "I can." If that resulted in "too much money" I could simply choose to work less hours. I'd not lower my rate.

The really good contractors will up their rate to fit in with demand. Those are the ones you should choose, NOT the cheap ones who are cheap because there is little demand for their services.

Prepare to be surprised,

Prepare to be surprised, then. There are many contractors on Odesk who live in third world countries who are charging $30 an hour or more. Cost of living does not have an impact on the skill and experience of a contractor, therefore it need not and often does not affect rates.

Reading between the lines

I suspect the issue is more what you are paying than the nationality. If you want bargain basement rates, chances are you'll get bargain basement work. You appear to expect to pay people from your own country reasonable rates so yes, chances are you'll get fairly skillful people. Expecting to pay pennies, you won't. Not so much their nationality as your own attitude. To answer your question, I am pretty sure you *could* get a highly skilled manager from the Philippines, but I doubt you'll make a huge saving on what you pay.

Anyone with a real company

Anyone with a real company would not be hiring a "department head" here on oDesk. Lots of fancy titles get thrown around here, but most are just BS hoping to lure some unsuspecting freelancer to work for pennies to have a fancy tiltle.

Yep

David D. wrote:
...most are just BS hoping to lure some unsuspecting freelancer to work for pennies to have a fancy title.

Yep. That.

(No subject)

Sad

And racism rears its ugly head.

"Hi; I've used people named Ashan in the past for low level work and my experience with them is that they are less creative and skillful than my domestic employees. This is obviously a broad strokes generalization but it seems to hold true for the vast majority of employees."

How does that sound to you? mmmmmm... a bit racist, maybe? Not so nice when your own biased words are turned against you, is it?

There are plenty of Filipinos, Pakistanis, Indians, Kenyan on this platform and others that I would hire because I know they could do the job. However, I WOULD NOT expect to pay them bottom-feeder wages like you do. I would expect to pay them market rates, because that is what they're worth to me.

Your problem is your bigotry clouds your business sense. So you pay the bottom rates to people you just KNOW can't do the job, instead of paying market rates to someone who can, regardless of where they live or the color of their skin.

I guess racism and bigotry are not just the domain of the Europeans and the Americans, huh? Its ugly face just reared its head in your neck of the woods.

****BTW, nobody who works on this platform is your "employee." Again, egotism and bigotry all in one sentence. Might be a record.

Ashan

"Hi; I've used people named Ashan in the past for low level work and my experience with them is that they are less creative and skillful than my domestic employees. This is obviously a broad strokes generalization but it seems to hold true for the vast majority of employees." - - - Well said Cate..

Ostriches, and all that

Robel Ramos wrote:
"Hi; I've used people named Ashan in the past for low level work and my experience with them is that they are less creative and skillful than my domestic employees. This is obviously a broad strokes generalization but it seems to hold true for the vast majority of employees." - - - Well said Cate..

You notice he (Ashan D.) didn't bother to reply to my charge of racism. Sticking his bigoted head in the sand is a good way of doing business, don't you think?

Right In The BULLSEYE

Excellent ! Wonderful! Outstanding!

Job done right at the beginning.

Up for the Filipinos.

Ashan, Filipinos are brilliant workers. They do more to rise above standards because they are aware of the shady perceptions of other nationalities towards them. You might have had a bad experience with your previous hires, but that won't ascertain you will never get beyond quality work from them. Just don't forget that Filipinos strive and are scattered all around the world, providing excellence. Good day! Smile

Like

Now, this is the perception you want to propagate. Smile

A contractor's ability has

A contractor's ability has got nothing to do with his nationality but his talent, education and experience. You will find both good and bad contractors even in US, Canada, India, pakistan, bangladesh, philipines. So please stop generalizing about a whole nation because you had bad experience with a contractor to whom you paid pennies. You get what you pay for.

I am not a racist

Ashan
I make that title because I have been accused of racism many times on this forum.

Your observations are correct. You will find in general people from Asia are far less creative. This has to do with the culture and the education system. The education system is designed to produce people who do not stand out. They conform to the group. People who do not conform to the group are punished. It's been like this for a long time.
It gets to the point, where the group itself enforces the rules. The group will punish an individual who overstepped their culture imposed boundaries.

Now there are many know-it-all Westerners here who criticized me, and call me a racist because I explain these cultural differences. But these people have never lived in Asia. They just think they know.

There are Asians here at Odesk who vehemently disagree with me on this. The reason is, the only culture than they know is their own. They've never lived in America or Europe to see how the schools and culture is different. They never seen thousands of artists at summer art fairs like we have in America.

Maybe they will attack me in this thread as well.

So if your position requires creative thinking, or abstract reasoning, or critical thinking, then you may not be satisfied.

The Asians work very well in business process outsourcing. Were you have repetitive tasks, or tasks that follow a pattern.

Joe, please show us the

Joe, please show us the statistics that back this claim.

You are clearly not aware that Asia is home to some of the world's best animators and designers. There is also no region in the world quite as cutting edge and creative as Asia in terms of streetwear and trends. That's not even mentioning the architecture and industrial design that comes out of Asia. If you have reliable figures that show otherwise, please share them.

Save your

Kirsten Holmes wrote:
Joe, please show us the statistics that back this claim.

You are clearly not aware that Asia is home to some of the world's best animators and designers. There is also no region in the world quite as cutting edge and creative as Asia in terms of streetwear and trends. That's not even mentioning the architecture and industrial design that comes out of Asia. If you have reliable figures that show otherwise, please share them.

Save your breath, Kirsten. As the saying goes, "There's none so blind as those who will not see." I'm so glad none of my American friends are as bigoted as him.

Just as....

Joe K. wrote:

Now there are many know-it-all Westerners here who criticized me, and call me a racist because I explain these cultural differences. But these people have never lived in Asia. They just think they know.

One doesn't have to grow up in a desert to know what a rattlesnake looks like.

Oh Your BACK?!?!?Just

Oh Your BACK?!?!?

Just because you have live for God knows how long in one of my country's Barrios in a Class C City in the southern region, whose general source of income is Agriculture or Fishing, where the majority of the population are 70% earning an average of $10 per day and whose general demeanor to foreigners or non "Locals" are of respect and whole hearted hospitality.

No I am not attacking you for your twisted perception, in fact I challenge you to transfer your location and do what ever you do in Manila or any Major City, visit all the Major Schools, Look at all the Major companies, Multinational and Local and see who are running them, Talk to foreign Managers, CEO's, COO's why they hire your "Low Quality Asians". And since your at it, talk to Samsung, Philips and other multinational companies who have set up Manufacturing shops all over the country and ask them why they are wasting their money and resources in our country. Or maybe go to MUMBAI, where as of todate is Leading in the BPO industry Worldwide for technical service and other skilled services. Wonder why, "Low Quality Asians" And BTW, I had a couple of Caucasians U.S educated foreigner reporting to me a "Low Quality Asian". not to mention dozens of "Low Class/Quality" Asians who has foreigners working for them.

I am familiar where you are staying, in fact got a lot friends there. I love the place, laid back, quite, relaxing, near Boracay the best beach in the country. And the people are very hospitable to the point of offering their last meal to their guest and as much as possible not give any bad impression of themselves.

No, I am not attacking you, nor your prejudistic views of the people around you and how you understand Asian Culture. And yes, I have not been in the U.S. and as how you describe your home country, Well I guess, everything that is shown on CNN, FOX, BBC or Written over the Net Regarding U.S on employment problem, quality of U.S education dropping, the Hoods, crime etc...are all ... well "made up stories?".

Or maybe your just afraid that your perception will shatter if your in the real world? Or simply happy living like a king with house help at your call? Just a reminder, the Law for House Help has just been made into law, I do hope your paying them accordingly.

ETA: Just failed to Add, I Have several "Low Class/Quality Asian" Friends and Relative in the Middle East who are either Division Heads, Hotel Managers, Supervisors and they do have Caucasian reporting to them. I Wonder why?

What era...

I wonder.. are you describing life in the stone age? Tongue

You might as well go back in history and check out the four great inventions that changed the world came from Asia, specifically..the Chinese: compass, gun powder, paper making and printing... w/c were adapted by Westerners.. so who really is 'far less creative' in your vocabulary?

are we getting

Joe Blogs' marketing spiel again? "Hire ME cos I'm American!". Well, it will liven up the forums for a bit.

Oh for crying out loud

Here comes Joe with his view of the world again.

You outright lied through your back teeth the last time you decided to spew forth your "views" - so why would anyone take your nonsense any more seriously this time?

Yep

Yep, apparently its "negotiation tactics", like we haven't heard this crappola before. The English language really is quite limiting sometimes. I suppose that is why we settled on it to be the business language.

EDIT: To be clear, I meant I agreed with you, my comment was in reference to the OP.

Odesk Community is not safe

Ashan, as you can see this is a very hostile place.

Nonsense

Joe K. wrote:
Ashan, as you can see this is a very hostile place.

No, it is not.

You come here, insulting people and entire regions with your ignorance, then follow it up with out and out lies, and then you have the nerve to whine about this place being "hostile?"

Your views and lies are offensive, and by definition "hostile" in themselves.

In Texas,

Joe K. wrote:
Ashan, as you can see this is a very hostile place.

We shoot rattlesnakes on sight.

Joe, Sorry shouldn't have

Joe, Sorry shouldn't have gone that FAR. not being hostile. As you have describe "Low Quality Asians", Then the Branch Managers of the local branches in your area are not qualified to handle millions of Pesos that passes thru their banks. Or the Branch Manager of the local Telecom Branch the provide internet and phone service. Or the Owner of the most notable Hotel Resort who was educated in just one of the top university of the country. Not to mention the Bank Clerks or the Customer Service of the Telecom company and Hotel that got their education from probably just the Notable Universities in the region, unfortunately have to make do with lower "Wage Scale" as compared to Class A cities of the country for the simple reason they don't want to be far from their love ones. Wow, poor place so much "Unqualified Managers and Workers".

So why are you still staying there? Ah, could it be it makes you feel tall and mighty?

Yup Ashan, Joe is "right" so don't get us "Low Quality Unqualified Asians". For you it will just be waste of your Money. We don't deserve High Strung people like you and JOe.

What on earth

do you expect? You go onto a forum and make rude remarks about large groups of people. You can't really expect people to be pleased.

Right

Right. And you don't know why it's directed at you? Jeez.

Joe K. wrote:
Ashan, as you can see this is a very hostile place.

Just in time

@Cate: For 2013 is the year of the snake Wink

@Joe: someone said that 'You are what You Share..' and in this digital age, everything you post reflects how we will see you as a person.

for every action there's a reaction. You wrote. We reacted. End of story.

HA! Thanks, Marissa.

Marissa S. wrote:
@Cate: For 2013 is the year of the snake Wink

@Joe: someone said that 'You are what You Share..' and in this digital age, everything you post reflects how we will see you as a person.

for every action there's a reaction. You wrote. We reacted. End of story.

I didn't realize that. But the correlation between the two seemed so obvious to me.

nearly

Junelle A. wrote:
i thought you said prattlesnake.

Actually, based on new evidence, the species we appear to have on our hands is a flounce viper.

Proud Filipino

Apparently, you haven't met me and some of my awesome friends yet dear Ashan D. Go for skills and not for country. A good hiring manager would probably know who's got it or not.

Good luck with your search.

To Ashan

Ashan, why don't you get off from your high horse and stop being racist once and for all? Filipinos are brilliant, creative workers with very good work ethics. They are considerate, compassionate and will generally beg off from job offers from employers like you.
And would I hire a department head from the Phillipines? You betcha! I would...definitely. It's going to be my loss, eventually, if I don't.

And contrary to common sense, why did you hire and are still planning to recruit people from the Philippines if there's so much disdain it in - from your perspective to begin with? Have you ever examined your motives of posting a message like that, on a community / public forum? Couldn't hide your insecurity, perhaps?

Isn't this JUST as "racist?"

Maria Isabel S. wrote:
Ashan, why don't you get off from your high horse and stop being racist once and for all? Filipinos are brilliant, creative workers with very good work ethics. They are considerate, compassionate and will generally beg off from job offers from employers like you.
And would I hire a department head from the Phillipines? You betcha! I would...definitely. It's going to be my loss, eventually, if I don't.

The second someone says "People from X,Y,Z country are ......." they are doing exactly the same thing as the OP.

Let's look at people, not nationalities, and individuals, not stereotypes.

Here we are not from Germany, the USA, Cloud Cuckoo Land.... We are "on the Internet" and members of a global marketplace.

Discrimination is discrimination, in either form.

It depends on the person and my requirements..

I might, I might not. As I said above, it depends on the person and how well they fit my requirements for the position. I can't imagine any position for which I couldn't find a skilled person from the Philippines.

As a North American, my biggest concern with hiring a Filipino for such a position would be the timezone difference, which could be an advantage or disadvantage depending on circumstances.

So ordinary...

well, I guess clients with this kind of mindset should just ask oDesk to create a new payment category and/or contract types, thus we would have fixed-price, hourly based, and racially-based rates (well, culturally-based could also work).

Honestly, even this client appears to be offending, it's the very same mindset which underlies so many job offers, with proposed (if not imposed) indecent rates/prices. The main (underlying) idea being that rates should be according to either the skin complexion or cultural background (i.e.: NON-Westerner): as it's very well known, that the darker/easternmost/southernmost you are, the less smart but the cheapest you are. What's missing in those job offers is making compulsory to call the dear employer: "Massa"...as I guess online genuflexions wouldn't be able to demonstrate the natural humility some "overtanned" (and thus skills-deprived) people should have towards their natural masters.

The more I read the oDesk community posts (which is very recent for me), the more I seriously question my presence here.

So ordinary...

double post: actually triple post

So ordinary...

same applies here: is there a way to delete duplicates? as I have no idea why it did occur and thus about how to impede it.